AMA's Graduation Policy: Good or Bad?

[Lighty]

from AsburyMusic.com

(OCTOBER 21, 2008) -- It's to be expected that there will be grumblings each time the Asbury Music Awards are announced. Some very deserving artists are bound to get left out while some artists nominated leave you scratching your head. One topic that seems to have been on many people's minds is the idea of the "Beyond Asbury" category given to those who are deemed to have graduated from the nominations.

In case you aren't familiar with it, the "Beyond Asbury" category is a name for those who are no longer considered for AMA nominations. I helped throw out the name for this category, but had little to nothing to do with how artists get deemed as having graduated. Basically, the process had been going on for years, so I suggested there be a section in the program guide to highlight those artists who are no longer up for the awards. I figured that would help people understand why a certain artist was not nominated - especially in cases when they were probably the best for a category.

Instead, I think the category made things worse.

I've heard people say they had little desire to go to the awards show because they were a graduate. I'm not sure if I buy that though because I think 80-90% of the people attending the awards show go just to have fun and hang out with everybody (especially artists they never get to see due to playing shows on the same night all of the time). It's hard for me to believe that people were solely interested in going because they had a chance to win an award. I would hope the night is thought more of as a celebration of the local scene, but I could be wrong.

The idea behind graduating artists (as I take it) stems from the idea that the Asbury Music Awards are supposed to represent an ever-changing, always growing music scene. Many of the people in the area (artists, music fans, music industry folks, etc.) really do hope that the artists move on to bigger and better things. Let's face it, Asbury Park is a hard place to make a living as a musician. I suppose if an artist wanted to just live around here and play NYC, Philly, Hoboken and Asbury Park they could be rather successful. In fact, I believe several artists do such a thing; however, they are in the minority.

If the AMAs were created to show that the local music scene is vibrant, doesn't it make sense that seeing the same artist win for a decade goes against that argument a bit? I can see how people could feel that the nominations should be open to every musician - regardless of how many years they've been on the scene, but the AMAs are not just for the artists, they are for the music scene as a whole. Clubs like the Saint, Asbury Lanes, Stone Pony, Wonder Bar - they really need the AMAs to help promote up-and-coming acts.

In the end, aren't all award shows created to recognize those who deserve recognition as well as serve as a promotional tool?

I've been in the clubs during weeks in January when the club owners are lucky to get a dozen people in the room. Now imagine if the artist playing is a great new act that NOBODY has ever heard of. Both sides are going to lose. In a way, it's kind of like the same argument we're going through with the financial crisis. Do you take money from some to help others survive and hopefully thrive? Well, in this case, the established or veteran artists probaly do get shafted a bit in order to let the next generation survive and have a chance to thrive.

It's not a perfect situation and I don't think there is one. If you had everyone who performed in Asbury Park over the past year eligible for an award in their category than you're minimizing the importance of the nominations; if you say everyone is eligible but we're only going to have 10 nominees per category, do you really think it'll be easy to kick a guy like Sonny Kenn off the blues category in favor of a newer act like Eryn Shewell? The AMAs would most likely be full of the same artists in each category year after year. While some people would argue that if those are the best artists they should be getting the nominations, you really have to look at the big picture. Everyone is in this together. If you don't want to help out the clubs (by promoting the next generation of artists) than the clubs will struggle more and ultimately some clubs will fail.

I agree with the 5 year rule, but I also think there should be a veterans area where everyone who has played Asbury Park is eligible to gain a nomination. That way the up-and-coming acts still have a chance for promotion but nobody gets left behind simply because they've been banging around in the area longer than 5 years.

What's your thought on the issue? Email me at [e-mail]

Reponses will be confidential unless you wish for them to show up on the website.

[Colie Brice]

You're welcome EJB512, good idea Mudd..

[mudd]

"I think an all star jam would have been a fabulous part of the ceremonies, particularly if it also included people who "graduated."

TRUTH.

[EJB512]

Thanks for the love, Colie - especially cuz I was late to the party and had a LOT to say : )

[Colie Brice]

Thanks for sharing those gracious remarks Ellen.

[EJB512]

WOW - I managed to read through pretty much this whole discussion, which is major since I'm pretty sure I'm at least a little ADD - and I HATE reading on the computer screen.

Many of you brought up points that I've agreed with. I want to say that until this past year, most of the music I've been involved with was in NY and Los Angeles, national and international acts. I'd come down to asbury once or twice a year to catch a national act that I'm friends with or heavily support, and that was it. I will tell you that everyone I know outside NJ wants to play the Stone Pony because of its history and because for people outside the area, playing the Stone Pony is a SIGNIFICANT milestone in their careers.

(I had to laugh though about one of the comments above because I too think the sound at the Pony is terrible and the sight lines are worse, but a classic is a classic, warts and all. PS At least the outdoor stage tends to compensate for that during the summer. And I'll always have a place in my heart for The Stone Pony.)

Regarding the AMA's - I actually sent in an email to say who I was, that I videotape all around town and have spent a significant amount of time in Asbury and included my votes with that message- I got a note back saying my votes would count and thanking me for taking the time to get to know the Asbury Music scene. So even though I wasn't targeted as a voter, I got to vote.

As for the AMA's - I actually attended the awards for two reasons. As a voter I felt I had a personal stake in seeing the outcome, and I also thought I might be able to capture some great moments on film. I was one for two on that - Got to see the outcome, but didn't capture the kind of footage I thought I would get. I truly thought I would see what I saw at Asbury Rocks For a Cure - I thought I'd see at least one all star jam honoring all the great music around us - if not several throughout the night. While I enjoyed some of the sets more than others, what I really wanted to see was what happens when you put together a whole room of great artists, and that's not the show that I got. I think an all star jam would have been a fabulous part of the ceremonies, particularly if it also included people who "graduated."

To me, the best way to promote newcomers is by having them share the stage with the old guard. That opens newcomers to the fanbase of those already well-established artists who are involved in a similar genre. Put them on the stage together, and people pay attention. Plus I know what it means to struggling artists to be on stage with people who are already established and well respected- It's a greater validation than any hardware you can give someone. They tell their loved ones, "hey - I'm going to be on stage with....," and that brings someone a lot of credibility with the people who know the ins and outs of what little reward they get for all their hard work.

Regarding the Beyond Asbury category - It did clarify for me why many of my favorites were not on the ballot, but I too think there should be an opportunity for those folks to continue to compete for awards - For instance, I would have loved to have been able to vote for Keith, and as a relative newcomer to this scene, I was surprised he was "beyond asbury" because to me, HE IS ASBURY, the very reason I've spent a lot of time down here. People like him, Alex Brumel, and Arlan Feiles who write from the heart totally captivated my attention and kept it. I can see graduating people in some capacity to keep the awards fresh and the newcomers visible, but especially if you've managed to stay a working, relevant musician for 5 or more years, not only do you deserve a medal, more than anybody you probably need that extra boost to keep you going.

I think I've probably rambled too much on this post, but I would like to add one more thing which is a bit off topic - What got me into the scene was an invitation to some XMAS show at the stone pony that I got from a friend who wanted to go. I didn't really want to spend my first night of vacation in Asbury Park seeing a bunch of people I didn't know, and ended up singing my heart out along with the bands doing covers of Peace songs all night. I got to hear Arlan Feiles for the first time, and was hooked on his sound. I met Matt Guzda of The Obvious who immediately introduced me to his bandmates and invited me to a party they were having around New Years. Unlike NY and LA, people are so down to earth in this scene, that I felt at home IMMEDIATELY. When Wave Gathering came around, I figured I knew at least one or two people performing on each day, so I'd get a three day pass and check them out. As luck would have it, their time slots were all over the place, which forced me to discover a WEALTH of great music and the full charm of the Asbury scene. It was like being on the BEST VACATION EVER even though I drove home to Woodbridge each night. I told everyone I know that they HAVE TO go to wave gathering, and I really hope some of my non Asbury music friends will come participate. And I personally would fight tooth and nail to keep that festival going because it truly markets the community and the best the shore has to offer.

- Ellen

[Hinge]

Mudd - Thanks! I appreciate that.
Although I'm not a club owner, and don't entirely know the financial logistics behind running a club, one example that always sticks with me is Fugazi. They used to have a $5 policy for all their shows, no matter where in the world they took place, and because of the reputation gained from their live shows, they became a successful band without radio play, videos, or any of the things that most bands use to become successful.
Lately, I've been hearing alot of grumbling about the cost of going out to see a show (or movie) these days.
I remember back in the early Brighton Bar days, Jacko would always charge $5, and back then, the club was always packed, and creating a scene was much easier because everybody could afford to be a part of it.
I'm not sure how a series of $5 shows would work out in 2008, but I'd like to think that a cheap show, with cheap drink specials, would probably be a success.

[Lighty]

Mudd, I wouldn't mind at all if Brunswick became the center of the music world in Jersey. It's a college town, which means a built-in audience base. When I talk about Asbury as New Jersey's main music area, this is not from hearing locals talk about it. This is from interviewing touring musicians for the last decade. People you wouldn't think would care about Asbury Park do. They care about its history and they care about playing a town that launched Bruce and Bon Jovi. In fact, outsiders (those from outside Jersey) seem to care more about the history than locals do.

I think you're right about the costs. Places like the Saint tried having free shows (bands gave free tix to their fans) and I thought that did kind of well, but maybe it didn't. I still think it would be great to find a way for the clubs to be packed with the bar making money from the booze and the band getting a cut of the overall from the night. Keep the cover under $5 or free.

If BOTH SIDES worked to fill the house, both sides should benefit. What I often hear is artists who want the club to fill the place or complain that there isn't a built-in audience for them. Yes, artists do work at promoting their shows but some work a lot harder than others. The key should be for club owners and musicians to find a middle ground where they both want to work their asses off to have a filled house. I rarely see that kind of effort from both sides. Sometimes it's the club's fault, sometimes it's the artists, and sometimes both drop the ball.

But I totally disagree that bands will be able to make a living, prosper, or even grow a decent fanbase without places to play. House parties and stuff is cool, but I still believe in a club scene. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I just wish more people pointed out numbers like you did and then tried working with club owners to make the system better. Too many people simply complain. Bring up the numbers and get things fixed.

[Colie Brice]

Makes sense to me Mudd. Btw, congratulations to Turtle Soup! Be forewarned.. I'm going to compete with you with my new band Old Goat Stew. Slower to cook but tasty none the less..

[mudd]

Congrats to all for a great night!!!!

hinge you're pretty spot on, IMO.

gary, i think you're putting the cart before the horse. music is what moves people. not clubs. and asbury, while it does have a better scene than some, is no where near the mecca of music that you think it is... and it never will be until there is a major change in philosophy. right now the asbury scene looks to make money off of bands and it's a pretty one-way relationship in most regards. what needs to change is a focus on relationships between band and club so they can both benefit.

consider this:
when we play in New Brunswick, they charge $4 at the door, and the band keeps everything. the bar doesn't need to take a cut of the musician's pay because they're making liquor money.

plus, they give girls half price drinks and have a built-in crowd. we get 200 people to see us in NB. we get 2 sets and play all night. everyone wins, the night doesn't cost an arm and a leg, there are cute girls everywhere, and the band gets paid really well.

in AP, it costs our fan $10 to see us play for an hour. the band will see half of that if we're lucky.

I love AP and wish it weren't this way. i think that fans should not have to pay a lot to go see their friend's band, especially when most people supporting the scene are stuggling artists themselves. if the door price went from $10 to under $5, you would see a remarkable change in people and attendances in general.

[TucciMusic]

If I ever did that, I would say "okay God, I am done here you can take me now"
;)
Jimmy Leahy told me a bit about it too. Intense.